Entrepreneur, Among Other Things
Entrepreneur, among other things...
“A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, cook a meal, fight efficiently, and die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.”
― Robert A. Heinlein
I talk to the most interesting people we can find in business, finance, science, art, technology, and human improvement and try to learn from them.
Entrepreneur, Among Other Things
#144 - Mark Steiner: From Hollywood PA to Tech CEO: Bootstrapping A Tech Giant With No Tech Background
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In this episode, we sit down with Mark Steiner, the founder and CEO of Gig Salad, the ultimate event marketplace connecting planners with entertainers. Born in New Jersey , Mark started his career in the entertainment world as a Hollywood production assistant and craft service provider, working on iconic film sets like The Godfather 3 and When Harry Met Sally. Transitioning from a booking agent into an event entrepreneur, Mark shares his journey bootstrapping a major tech startup , navigating partnerships , leveraging powerful SEO strategy , and returning to his passion for acting.
Connect with Mark:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/markandrewsteiner/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/markandrewsteiner/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/markandrewsteiner1/
YouTube: @TheBigIdeasPodcast
Website: https://thinkupon.com/
Website: https://www.gigsalad.com/
#GigSalad #entrepreneurship #startupfounder #techceo #EventMarketplace #hollywoodstories #behindthescenes #bootstrapping #businessinterview #bookingagent #ADHDInBusiness #seostrategy
Alexander V. Johnson is a Founding Partner of Mixt Solutions, a 6x Inc. 5,000 Fastest Growing Company in America. Mixt Solutions has successfully done millions of transactions on Amazon and works with some of the biggest consumer packaged goods brands in the world. In 2024, Mixt Solutions crossed over 200 million dollars in all-time sales on Amazon.
Connect with Alex:
YouTube: @EAOTpodcast
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/06QZEpv...
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/eaotpodcast/
Twitter: https://x.com/EAOTpodcast
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/EAOTpodcast
TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@eaotpodcast
Intro Music Credit:
"Alone and Afraid" - SourBlood: • Alone and Afraid Official Lyric Video
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/artist/7FJVH...
Mark, good morning. How are you? Hey, good morning. It's great to be here. Thank you. Sounds like you're taking the show on the road, man. You're in Minneapolis, uh doing a little tour, and then you got some fun stuff, so we'll get you on the way with that. But uh why don't you tell why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself and uh what you've been up to over the last couple of years?
SPEAKER_01Well, um I born and born and raised in New Jersey. Uh I'm a I'm a Jersey boy, and I had a love of the arts and entertainment from a very young age and was determined to make a career in that. So when I graduated high school, I went on the road and uh toured around the country with the children's theater troupe.
SPEAKER_00Interesting.
SPEAKER_01And when that was done, I moved into New York City where I hoped to break into the movie business, and I got a lucky break, um, an absolutely lucky break. Uh, met somebody that worked in the business. She gave me uh my first PA job, and that launched me. Production assistant, that's right. I was a production, she was an office manager on movie sets, uh, production manager, and um uh so the first one was just Schleppen being an office PA, running around, running errands, running things to the set. And um uh, you know, I I I guess I showed some um Hutzpah, and I got my next movie right away, uh, just one after the other after the other. I went from different being a PA in different departments and then uh sort of found my way into doing what's called craft service. If you're familiar with that listeners, uh so the person that has uh feeds the casting crew on movie sets throughout the shoot day. So not necessarily not the meals necessarily, but just has food to nosh on and you know hot coffee to drink, et cetera. And uh I had a culinary background from high school. I did a two-year vocational course, so I was able to utilize a skill that I had trained for. And um, and then I further got my next lucky break, which was the director knew I really wanted to be an actor, so she threw me a line and I got, you know, got a part, got my sag card, and bounced back and forth on movies, you know, doing lots of extra and background work on movie sets, the occasional day player here and there, a line here and there, uh, and running my craft service business in in the movie world. And then I moved out of the city to Connecticut, uh, got out of the business and became a booking agent, booking big bands and uh jazz artists and nostalgia acts, and then started my own business, and that morphed into what I do today, which is uh I'm the founder and CEO of a company called Gig Salad. Gig Salad is an event marketplace, a place to book entertainers, performers, speakers, and other event service providers. And so we connect event planners with event service providers, and you know, we're kind of like the Airbnb or the Uber of events. And uh I'm having the time of my life. I'm 60 years old, I'm an empty nester, and I'm not slowing down. I'm doing more than I ever have. And uh, and I really I mean that. I have startups and I'm trying to get I'm trying to be an actor again and professional actor. Um and really I'm I've I'm having the time of my life.
SPEAKER_00So that's amazing. What did uh what did your parents think when right after high school you said, I'm gonna go on the road and do this touring kind of uh play thing?
SPEAKER_01That is a that's a great question. Here's why. Uh I'm adopted and I was adopted at birth. And uh a year in the uh I I I I forget if it was just with it was sort of the last part of making the adoption official. So my parents brought me in to be evaluated and um you know see how it goes. I'm sure there had been in-home evaluations and whatnot, but while I was in the while we were in the office, I think it was a trick, but this woman put a toy in her desk drawer, and my mother had uh and and my mother had snacks in a purse. And when she put the toy in the desk drawer, I made my way around my parents sitting at the desk. And I went to the desk drawer, I opened up the desk drawer, and I I I grabbed that toy. I didn't I didn't cry about it. This is the way my parents tell the story. I didn't cry about it, I didn't fuss about it, I didn't, you know, I wasn't whining, I wasn't waiting for somebody to bring me the toy. I wasn't I went for the toy. And then further, I like my snacks. I went into my I went to my mom's purse, I knew the snacks were there, I took out a snack, and um, you know, I'm I'm trying to piece this together, whether it was one or I forget, but I went for what I wanted, and she told my parents don't don't try to um don't try to harness that energy. Don't don't stop him from anything. He's got, you know, um, it was sort of and to my to my parents uh you know credit, I feel like they did that throughout my entire life. My parents were always extremely supportive of whatever I wanted. They never had uh an agenda for me other than that I would always do my best, that I would apply myself, that you know, I um that I would work, you know, that strong work ethic, but that find, you know, sort of that find your passion. Find do the thing that you were meant to do. Um so they allowed me to go into New York City when I was 15 years old. I'd get on a bus and go for auditions or go to acting class and do this kind of thing. Um, you know, some might look at that and said, irresponsible. Uh, but they it was they gave me a lot of you know, a lot of liberation, a lot of freedom to explore, a lot of independence. And they would be there to help if, you know, basically you make your choices in life, you know, choose responsibly, choose wisely, kind of thing. Um and so when I said I I wasn't, you know, I didn't I didn't have any interest in going to college, I didn't consider myself a good student. That's another you know, late a late in life, two and a half years ago, got diagnosed with ADHD. So that explained a lot of stuff as well. But I just knew what I knew and I knew what I didn't want to do, but I knew it more most importantly what I really wanted to do, and that was to go and explore and be in the movie business. So um thumbs up all around for my folks, just go and go do well kind of thing.
SPEAKER_00Well, that's some pretty dang good parenting and and a smart adoption counselor, too, right? Isn't it funny? Like one situation, one sentence someone says to someone can change your life forever. But but I think to your point that allowing you to go explore at age 15, a lot of that has been kind of eliminated in our modern day culture. It used to be whether you were in a big city like New York where you're in a small town, like the kids all just you know go run and play for five or six hours. And I think Jonathan Hayde calls it like unsupervised play, right? Where like your parents aren't there to like, oh, the the big kid punches you. It's like, what do I do? You know, how do I navigate this situation? And I think what he's kind of pointed to is that sort of creates these kids who don't know how to handle themselves out in real life situations, they're more anxious, they're more like skittish around the world. They they like won't pick up the phone and make a phone call, you know, because it's like, oh, that's so awkward talking to another human being. Um it's kind of sad and disappointing because you know that's how probably you grew up and led you a lot of these amazing things.
SPEAKER_01That's right. That's exactly right. And I I'm familiar with that study. Um, it was referenced in a in a uh in another book that I'm gonna come back to later and tell you, but I'm I'm very familiar with that um that idea of are we is there too much helicoptering of parents, you know, um just trying to safeguard our children from every single bit of uh any sort of exploration that potentially has a danger in it. Um I don't know. I I I can tell you that I parented my children in the same fashion, and um they found their way, you know. They're 27, 24, and doing amazing, so and doing the thing that they they wanted to do, you know. I didn't have any agenda or you know, I wasn't sitting in my face at all.
SPEAKER_00So I don't I don't think of New York City, maybe I'm naive here. I don't think of New York City in the movie business so synonymously. I think of LA, Hollywood, right? So what what was the movie scene like um in New York City at that time? Maybe give me a give me a frame of reference. Like what years kind of were you working in a movie scene in New York?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. Uh 85. I graduated high school in 84. Okay. And um, and the movie, you know, it it was really it was LA and New York. There's still, you know, a ton of uh most all the all the morning shows are filmed there, so there's okay, yeah, that makes sense. Right. Well, yeah, but but there's um New York being New York, there's a lot of films that are set there. There's a lot of films that are that at least have locations there. Um, and so no, there's a thriving film industry, and and now as a matter of fact, the largest film studio in the world is being built by Netflix in New Jersey. So that whole tri-state area is is often being filmed and streaming and television and uh film. So I yeah, in 1984, I moved in, and I can tell you I was uh I was only ever out of work for maybe a month or two, and that's when you go collect unemployment and go do your waitering job for a couple months, and then you get picked up on another film. But yeah, it's it's there's non-stop. Yeah, think of I I took for example, I you know, some of the bigger films that I worked on that most memorable would have been She Devil. That the part I got the film I got a part on was with Meryl Street, Roseanne Barr, Ed Begley Jr. It was called She Devil.
SPEAKER_00Pretty good cast of characters to be uh on the scroll with, right?
SPEAKER_01It wasn't bad. It was they were good people to feed and good people to come be, you know, be friends with during a filming. Um, and before that, it was when Harry met Sally. That's the film I first started, you know, I became a craft service person on. I was in the locations department. But I, you know, I worked on the uh Godfather 3. Uh you know, gosh, I could go on and on with several films with you know Bobby De Niro and Al Pacino, A Night in the City. Um go to we're gonna can we put in the notes below my IMDB page? Yeah. No, I'm kidding. I'm kidding. That would my the the resume there would show you most everything you need to know.
SPEAKER_00That's amazing. Do you have like any uh really specific etched in your mind memories from that time horizon, like working on those movies? Is there like one movie, one moment that you're like, wow, this is crazy. Like I can't believe I'm here doing this as like a well, I mean you would have been 19, 20, 21, 23, something like that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly. I well, I I moved in when I was, yeah, exactly. I moved into the city when I was 19, um, 18, 19. And you know, I um it's a difficult question to ask because there's so many, so many memories. I have an anecdote for every every film I worked on, every every person I met. Um, and some of them would be just to have I I have Italian, uh, it's Italian heritage. I'm uh my biological father was Italian, my biological mother was Irish, um, my parents, my adoptive parents, my mother is Italian, um, and my father was German-Irish. That's the Steiner. Um, but so I've really identified to with the Italian, Italian, the Jersey Italian thing, the quintessential, you know, the whole good fellas mob, yeah. Jersey, right? And so to work with to work on Godfather 3 with Francis Ford Coppola and Al Pacino, um, that in and of itself was just such a thrill. And and the proximity that you get with folks on on these movie sets, especially with in the with the job I did as a craft service person, the first thing you do is you go to the casting crew and say, what special needs do you have? What you know, how do you like your coffee? How do you, you know, what do you want on your bagel in the morning, kind of stuff. And so just that, you know, to be in the service business, um got me close. And so I worked with the all the most famous people in the world at the time. You know, um, I was working on a movie called Billy Bathgate with Dustin Hoffman and uh Nicole Hidman, and that's it was during the time that Tom was married, Tom Cruise was married to Nicole, and he came onto the movie set one day and sort of weaved in and around the studio. Um, I remember it like it was yesterday, and introduced himself to everybody that would came into his past, stuck out his hand, introduced his name with himself with his name, as if he didn't know. You know, hi, I'm Tom. No kidding, Tom. Uh, I'm Mark. I'm sure you know that kind of stuff. But it was those those little touches. Um, I've wanted to write a book about my my brushes with greatness, because they were ever so slight, ever so small. But uh for a you know, for the kid, for the scrappy kid from Jersey who, you know, wanted to be an actor, this was my world. And to to to be able to have just a brief hello uh with with folks sometimes said so you know was so much. Um yeah, I worked with I've been telling stories about Gene Wilder recently, and he was somebody I got really close to on um See No Evil, Hear No Evil with Richard Pryor. Um and in some cases, you know, people became uh mentors to me. And um, you know, some I say I'm I'm in contact with still today. So yeah, it was it was great. I it was great.
SPEAKER_00There probably is a book to be had there, whether it's exclusively your stories or you like farmed out to like other people in the industry, you know, across time. That would be probably that'd be a pretty fun read. You know, it just depends on like do I want to tell the stories about where actors are assholes to people, or do I want to exclusively just tell like really positive uplifting stories? Um because I'm sure there are you know the ones where the people are not so friendly. I've you know, those are the ones that go public when it's like some PA, like whatever person threw coffee on them. It's like that's probably not really how that person is.
SPEAKER_01Um yeah. I kind of I that's funny you say that. I just recently all of a sudden I I worked with Val Kilmer as well. Oh yeah and um, and now all of a sudden, a year after his death, people are for some reason coming out and talking about how difficult he was on movie sets, and in fact, going to great lengths of saying, you know, he was horrible in their opinion. And I I don't know, I don't I don't understand those reads. I don't understand going there. I'd rather I'd much rather highlight the ones who uh, you know, made an impression in a positive way, were kind. And that was mostly the case. A lot of uh for the people that I admired most, I wasn't often disappointed. You know, the the higher the celebrity, the higher the star, I I mostly found that those were some the people that gosh, I I I hope appreciated it the most and and were and were for grateful for their position and not you know not arrogant, haughty, rude, yeah, the other stuff.
SPEAKER_00Well, also uh, you know, I was just so I had to do I had to film some like small commercials for our business. And these are like 60 second, 90 second commercials, so they're super easy, like you probably just snap them out, no problem. And I'm pretty good on camera too. Like I've I've done plenty of speeches and hundreds of podcasts now at this point in time. But it is it is challenging, like when a camera is on you to deliver that line and deliver it you know perfectly and not get flustered. And like my office is like in the back of the building, and the AC doesn't come all the way to the back of the building. So it's hot in my office, and I got my door shut and I'm screwing up these lines, and I'm like getting really flustered. And I'm like, man, I can only imagine if there's a thousand people on set and they're expecting me to deliver this monologue, and I just drop the ball on it four or five or six times, like, you know, and then they cut and the PA comes up to you and they go, Mr. Johnson, would you like the coffee? You're just like, get out of here. Like, no, I'm not, we're not we're not talking right now. Like, I need a moment. Like, I felt like I would have snapped at my staff if they'd like been up there, you know, trying to help me out. Um, so I I mean I I get it. It's a tough, it's a challenging business. And then although you think, oh, it's acting, it's not hard, you're just playing around. Like, no, that there's a lot of pressure on you when you're in those big roles. There it most certainly is. That's true. Probably more pressure on you when you're in like a more minor role. And like Leonardo DiCaprio is like, Mark, spit the line out. Like, come on.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00You have six lines, Mark. You can't screw this up, man.
SPEAKER_01Right. Well, that's I was a featured, I was a featured extra on one film called Uh The Mirror Has Two Faces with Barbara Streisand. And she was the director as well. And it was, I was a bartender in a bar serving a beer to uh Jeff Bridges. And good company. Uh good company. And I'm sir, and I'm supposed to be pouring the beer um and doing a perfect foam tap top. And I couldn't get it right. And I I I kept flubbing that. I didn't even have a line. I just couldn't pour, I couldn't even pour a beer out.
SPEAKER_00And so uh is there a situation where they're like, we need a new bartender, new bartender. It was I was close. Does anybody know how to pour a beer in here?
SPEAKER_01A freaking beer, you know, who doesn't know how to pour a beer? I you know, how how many keggers have I done? How many times have I done it did a keg party as growing up? I knew how to do a beer. I guess you weren't, you know, I wasn't camera ready to pour a beer. Uh, but she that was another case where I was she was patient. She may have even come over and tried to demonstrate it herself and and but also didn't get it, kind of thing. But yeah, pressure, you're not kidding. Uh yeah, I mean, uh the the one line, get you come on, get it together.
SPEAKER_00So, how do you decide that you want to transition out of the uh the film industry? Because it seemed like things were kind of going well. You were working on big movies, interacting with big people, even doing some acting spots there. Did you think like I can progress my acting career, or did it feel like this is gonna be challenging to become like a bigger actor?
SPEAKER_01That's great. Uh I it was that it was um I was not somebody who was trying to be a great actor. I was somebody who was trying to be, I wanted to be rich and famous. It was uh it took it took a lifetime. It took uh uh uh some growing up, some maturity, um, some figuring it out. So I I I I didn't advance with my acting career because I simply was not going to acting classes, I wasn't auditioning, I was waiting to get keep getting breaks. And uh and you know how how well prepared can you be when those breaks come when you're not really honing the craft? That's you know, that is all sort of the existential sort of discovery that I've made. And it was it was good to realize it. I would have, I would, I would have definitely been one of the anecdotes that people talk about that had I gotten what I thought I wanted or needed at the time would have been disastrous because I would not have known how to handle that any success at the time. I needed to grow up. And so the move to Connecticut, we moved from Connecticut, I got married in that time period in '91. And um, and then and I met I met my wife at the time in in church. And so we we moved to Connecticut to plant a church up around New Haven. Yeah. We were very involved. And um, so to add a commute on top of a long movie shoot day for me to drive to New York City and be the first person on the set for craft service and the last one to leave and do shopping before it was just I had decided I'm I've tried, I gave it my best shot, I've um and I had a good run. I had a world of experiences and and and great it was a great time. Um, but as I said, it taught me that I settled for doing craft service because it put me in proximity to the people that I thought I wanted to be. And uh and the movie business is fascinating, it's exciting, it's new, it's every day is something uh wonderful.
SPEAKER_00Um was it like was it profitable? Like were you making enough money to survive? I mean, I know the cost of living was probably not anywhere near what it is today in New York City, but New York City's never been a cheap city to live in, really, right?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it it was um you we got by, you know, you're young, you're scrappy, you're you know, um you don't need the penthouse apartment when you're whatever, 23.
SPEAKER_00I did.
SPEAKER_01Well, it didn't stop me from trying. Or but yeah, so it no, I I made a living. We uh Allison even worked with me on movie sets shortly after we got married. That discovery was good too, that a young couple uh may it might not be good in the in the newlywed stage to you know have have your spouse come in and into your world that you know and try to figure that out. So um it was great. It was it was it was good, and then when it was done, it was done. And now, you know, now after um having you know raised a family, founded a company, uh, you know, um, and and and I'm at a pl age and stage and place in my life now, uh, I think I now I want to be a great actor. So I'm going, I'm going back to acting class and I'm uh I'm doing it the proper way. I'm uh I'm working on um honing the craft, I'm then going to seek representation and and then I'm gonna start auditioning. And I'm doing it uh in a at a at a pace and rate that is conducive that I what I think for success. And I'm doing it because I want it's a form of artistic expression for me. And I I I love the art form. I it's movies is my magic place, it's the place I go to is I personally go to escape and um get lost for a period, you know. I my favorite hobby, my pastime is to go to a matinee movie and just disappear for for a period of time. And so uh I want to be a part of that world again.
SPEAKER_00How did you fall in love with movies? Was there one or two movies you saw when you were a kid that you're like, man, this is amazing? Because I like movies, everybody likes movies. I I don't feel like I have that same passion. Where like when you listen to Tarantino, he's rattling off movies from like the 30s that he saw. He's like, this great director, and then this one. And I'm like, I'm never gonna watch these movies. These are these are not for me. Like, I need I need some John Woo, I need a little action or something, Tarantino.
SPEAKER_01That is funny that you reference him. Yeah, him, Robert Rodriguez, these young, these, these film students. I I I admire them. I'm not at that depth. I my son and I do a thing where we'll pick a an actor or a director and we'll try to watch their whole catalog and discuss that. Uh, but the movies that inspired me as a youth were the classics that came on once a year, um, which with The Wizard of Oz. Oh, yeah, you know, right? Chitty Chitty Bang Bang. You know, these would when there was three networks, and one of them would air, you know, that one classic every year. Uh, but the the the sort of weekly tradition for us was on Sunday nights, there was what the wonderful world of Disney, and there was a disadvantage that was out uh that would be out uh come out and um or air, you know, it was and it was guy like Herbie the Love Bug and you know things that Kurt Russell was in, and you know, it was the Apple Dumpling gang and these these movies that had these great character actors, and I just remember escaping into that world and and feeling um you know, it gave me comfort, it gave me uh and I pretended, you know. Uh so it was those you know, it was uh Willy Wonka in the chocolate factory. It was Gene, you know. So then 20 years later, 25 years later, to meet him uh was thrill upon thrills. And so it was um that's that's what I my the the there was a one of my fondest memories growing up, it was my mother picking me up from school elementary uh uh kid in kindergarten. It was I don't know if this is still the thing, like there's there was half day kindergartens. You either went in the morning or you went in the afternoon.
SPEAKER_00So it was an AM kid, you know. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01I was an AM kid as well. So mom, when she picked me up, we'd walk home and there was happened to be a movie theater uh between our, you know, the school and the home. And and I remember on occasion we'd go and watch, you know, stop and if there was a matinee, uh a children-friendly matinee, we would go and it would just be sitting in a movie theater with my mom, bucket of popcorn, you know, and and then to exit the theater in the bright of day, and I would, you know, I could I I I would leave still living in that world. I was still, I was a character in that world, or it just it it was magic. It just it's hard to describe. Music had the same impact, music in a different way had the same impact. So uh I should uh you know qualify this by saying I wanted to be a movie star or a rock star.
SPEAKER_00Hey, well, maybe it maybe even a famous athlete, you know. Why not? You know, why stop there?
SPEAKER_01That that was not what that would there's something that I wasn't I didn't have that in me. I mean, I was athletic, you know, I did all I did all the sports. There was something about I felt I didn't feel the same empowerment and emboldened by being uh, you know, I it's not entirely true. No, I think there was times I grew up in South, you know, my first home was South Jersey, so it was the Dr. J with the Sixers and stuff. Yeah, there was there was baseball players and football players, but baseball and basketball in particular was my my the two sports. And uh yeah, it just didn't have the same same pool, the same draw. But I wanted to be a star, Alex. That was the thing. I just I needed to be big. I wanted to be popular, I wanted to be famous. And uh that was the that that was the clear closest path to it for me.
SPEAKER_00Well, well, like you said, you know, be careful what you wish for, because not everybody that gets that fame it winds up being the best thing for them. So so what happens once you go, you open this, you're opening a church or starting a church or founding a church, I don't know how they would call it. Um what's your prospect for work out there? And then how do you eventually transition into music?
SPEAKER_01Well, I um what h it was a church planning. So the big New York City church, there was members, there was young, there were students at Yale that were trav would travel into New York City on Sundays to go to go to be a part of this church. And so the idea was we should we should put a church up in up there. And um we were very active in the church. I mean, uh uh uh it was it was exciting to be, it was an honor to be chosen to be a part of that or asked to be a part of that. My wife had just graduated from Manhattan School of Music, she's a concert violinist, she got a job teaching violin up in New Haven. And so it was a nice transition. It was, you know, we had done, we had a great run in the city, and now it was let's go to Connecticut with a bunch of our friends and see what happens. I was in transition at that point um where I left. Um I want to do the all this correct. Well, that's right. I we we moved in 94 and I there in 94 and I had created a teddy bear. I had created a colorful teddy bear, a rainbow-colored teddy bear. I had this idea that I wanted a I wanted to teach children, it was a statement against racism. Okay and bigotry. It was I wanted to teach children to love all the colors. And there was a pen pal component to this where you would fill out, you know, a parent would fill out a card, basically a profile of the child, mail it to me, and I would match that child with a child that was as different from their profile as possible.
SPEAKER_00Okay.
SPEAKER_01So socioeconomic, you know, the whole thing is as pars as possible and that would teach people to children, it was talk and get to know each other, pre-internet, all of that. And I, as a result, I had a c I had a pretty good run with that. I started this thing with credit cards. Um, I won a big award, uh, the Goodwill Games with Ted Turner. I I was uh sent to Russia, to St. Petersburg, Russia, and it was an it was a really amazing experience. Um, but it didn't, and I had you know nominal success with it, mostly trying to just get samples out there, and it you know, uh, but I uh found myself needing a job. So a friend in uh that was working for a small boutique uh booking agency that was owned and operated by the people that owned the Glenn Miller Orchestra license. Um he worked there, he thought I'd be a good agent and uh hired me, and I started commuting back to New York, and I was it turns out I was a really good agent. You know, I was able to sell um and book dates and did that for them for seven years. And um uh in 2001, I left that agency. Uh, I think I was kind of burned out. Uh, I got an opportunity to go work for a friend of mine who is a very prolific and uh famous architect himself in New York City, and I went to work for his architecture firm for a time. Uh I was I was an office manager and it wasn't lasted about three months. It wasn't for me as much as I love architecture, it just wasn't for me. And I think I missed the I missed the booking business. And uh so I started my own agency. I started Steiner Talent, and that morphed into including a speakers bureau. And um, and then that that sort of morphed into what is gig salad today. I when I had uh my first website put up uh for Steiner Talent, uh that presented an opportunity, a challenge, because I was getting inundated by people looking for representation and looking for gigs. Starting to 2002 or so, people were searching, and um and what I refer to as local regional sorts of entertainers and performers. That wasn't my business model. I was booking national touring acts, headliners, um, you know, uh, you know, more personalities. And but at the same time, I was getting contacted by event planners, by parents planning children's birthday parties and brides and mother of brides planning weddings and this sort of thing. And I thought, let there's an there's an opportunity here to bring these two people together. They're fine, they're looking for one another, they're finding me. Um, well, how can I, you know, what can I do here? So I went back to my friend who had designed my website and we started conceptualizing what's become, you know, what became gig salad. And here I am 23 years later, and um we're number one in our space, and it's pretty, it's a it's pretty amazing.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's been a great what uh what at Steiner Talent, what kind of uh artists were you? Um did you have like a niche of artists that we were doing jazz or country? My my one of my best friends is an agent at WME, so I know a little bit about it. Um which uh which office he's in Nashville, yeah. But I think I think he I think he books in California. I think he does like artists through California. I don't know exactly how it works. I know and I know about that much, so that's where my my knowledge ends.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, WME. So I that I was a middle broker, and that's the distinction. I was a booking agent, and so I represented the buyers. I was I was a buyer being like a venue. Exactly, a venue, a fair or festival, corporate events, uh colleges and universities. And so I I was a middle broker between the WMEs out there, this creative artist agency, CAA, uh what it was, ICM, all your all the all the agencies that represent the big talent, you know, and it could be any musical genre. It also included, you know, theatrical talent. Um I more it morphed into I had a speakers bureau division, so all the major speakers bureaus as well, Washington Speakers Bureau or et cetera. And so um uh so yeah, I probably, you know, depending on how long your friend was there, I would I worked with the Nashville offices, the New York offices, the California offices, and um I would broker dates on their behalf. So it was whatever the whatever the buyer wanted, the promoter, the, you know, it was often, you know, I learned I worked a lot with performing arts centers. So smaller, 3,000 capacity, 2,000, 3,000. Um, but then uh, you know, sometimes the bigger, bigger, bigger places, fairs and festivals, places like that. Um, and the way it works at WME is it's the either, you know, it's often within departments, sometimes they work regionally. It's based on whatever happens in that area of the country, sort of there's an agent that sort of covers that, and or it's by genre or department, so it's you know, or it's specific acts. It depends on what level they're yeah you're at. But um, yeah, or or the type of the type of booking. So there's some that just work with colleges and universities, or some that just work with fairs and festivals, just work with corporate. Um and so that's that's what I did. I and and and so anybody that would see my roster and I would have these listings of the of the of the talent that I worked with, not that I represented, but I could offer because I had that relationship. Uh that's people saw that. And I think they probably also saw that I was based in you know, Connecticut. I think there was something about um the that closeness. They thought, oh, I'm yeah, I'm a I'm a big dog in this little town. Maybe I can convince him to represent me or discover me or develop me kind of thing. Um and it it just wasn't what I it was not my model. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So you weren't really like going to the gigs and trying to find, you know, the next great Rs. That was not really your your thing.
SPEAKER_01That's right. That's correct. I that's not what I was doing. But um, as I said, uh the way most great businesses get started is that it starts with a challenge, it starts with a problem. And I wanted to be helpful when I got these calls. I didn't want to just be not what I do, bye. I, you know, if there was an event planner calling me to for something, I I first thing I thought was, well, who do I have in my in my roster here in my Rolodex? Can I possibly put them in touch with? Because as I said, my my my wife at the time was she's a you know, she was doing gigs. She was she was doing strolling violin gigs at corporate events, weddings. Uh, she could put together a quartet. So it wasn't that far removed from it, but from a monetary, from a business standpoint, you know, I had to be making a minimum of $500 of a commission on a date to make it worth my while. So at a 10% commission rate, it's five. You know, I was booking or higher, right? And so uh it's just not what I did. I wasn't going to be booking a $200 clown at a kid's birthday party. Um but but we got to this thing where maybe maybe we create a direct, let's just create a directory. We'll get all these people contacting, calling me listed on that directory. The event planners hopefully go find that website when they do it, and uh let's see what happens. And we did this in a very bootstrap uh fashion, you know, couple thousand dollars between us we put into this thing. And while we were doing our separate businesses, my my co-founder was a uh um he went to FIT for graphic design, and around 2000, he started to um uh dabble with creating designing websites. He subsequently I also met him in that church. He graduated from FIT and went full-time into ministry and became a minister for you know 10 years or something, some amount of years. Yeah, exactly. Jesus. Um uh so uh when he got out of that that racket, he um started designing websites and he and I became business partners.
SPEAKER_00So I mean, website design is a whole different business model than like call, book, send the wire, click, right? Like the I mean, I'm sure even that business has changed you know exponentially with the dawn of the internet and just the way that everything works. But what was it like when you decided to finally spin this thing up and you're like, okay, we're gonna try to see if we can make this a real business and monetize it?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it was a f it was my first venture in doing something in collaboration with another. It was my first partnership, and I realized that um I um I I I may have a a certain certain qualifications, certain talents or gifts or strengths myself, but I don't have all of them. And I could use help. And in this case, we were really good friends. We had met in '91. Um, he came to lead the Connecticut church that I was in for a period of time. We rekindled that friendship. We were really close. He was he he had become a best friend. And so what often happens and has happened since, what I realized is my love language is when I start feeling a vibe and intimacy or closeness with somebody, and I always think, what would happen if we took this on the road? What enterprising thing could we do together? We need to go into business together, is what I always go to. And it started with Steve. And sure enough, I mean, that was the thing. Like he, as a designer, he had he's an artist, he had a really good eye. So he I knew I was very confident that for the look and the feel and the brand, he's got it. He can we'll we'll work on it together, but it's gonna be it's gonna come from him first. And he was the one that named gigs, he called it gig salad. He was the one that came and said, Hey, uh, we're working in the world of gigs, it's a mixture of gigs, gig salad. Perfect, let's do it. Um and and so that was really it. Again, I I didn't, I didn't go to college, so I I I didn't consider myself particularly um uh smart intellectually, like I wasn't a uh necessarily a reader, or I I just didn't consider myself smart in that way. I was a I was a really hard worker, I had a lot of great ideas, the mind never stops. And so um, and he and I, Steve and I would talk about ideas all the time, every day. He he had probably had a bit of the the condition as well, but it was always like, oh, we could do that, we could do that. We we we were convinced that we could do it, whatever we chose to do, we'd probably do it successfully, and we were certain of that. The problem was what which one are we gonna pick? Yeah, we have to pick something and do it. And that's we that's we we decided on gig salad and off we went. And it was just that really great balance. I knew the I I knew the business, I knew what what it was to be that connector of buyer and talent. Um, and that's how we approached it. And it and it uh it just it was right time, right place, great idea. And you know, here we are. Like I said, we're number one in our space. Um there was a company out there that was already doing it, so we were able to grab and pull some from what they did and how they did it. Um, like everything else, you look at it, you do your due diligence, and you see what what do we not think they're doing well, or not well enough, or what can we do better? That all of that. And um we found our way and went from the little engine that could, and the sort of the underdog in that scenario, to we made some really pivotal choices that decisions about um w what could what can we change about the model that they weren't doing uh that should be done and and it they turned to be turned out to be home runs.
SPEAKER_00So it's fun it's funny you say that about you know. All those ideas that you have, you know, just everyday idea, idea, idea, idea. I think that's like a kind of a gift and a curse for a lot of entrepreneurs because they have so many ideas and then they don't ever stop and just go, like, I need to focus on this one thing and really take it to the next level. Like the best thing I've ever heard it described as is when you, let's say you're working a job and then you quit and you leave and you go start that business. You get this big hit of serotonin and dopamine, like, this was amazing. I'm so happy that I did this. And then you go three months, six months, you know, three years in, and then you go, I think I need to change something again. And it's like, I want that hit again. I want that dopamine hit that like I started a new thing and it's exciting. But because of that, entrepreneurs don't stay on the straight and narrow path long enough to actually see the thing come to fruition. I I heard it said that that uh Jeff Bezos, he was like with you know a very early like senior advisor of his, and the advisor said, like, Jeff, you have enough ideas to kill this company like very quickly. And he's like, Well, what do you mean? And he's like, You don't understand when you have these ideas, people go out and they start working on them. Like you you need to titrate these ideas at a rate that we can actually go and utilize them, but you're just like throwing them out there right, left, and center, and everyone's like, Well, Jeff said he likes this idea, like maybe we should start moving on it. And you don't stay on the straight and narrow nearly long enough to let the business grow before you're like, okay, now it's the time for a new idea. And I and I I got some executive coaching, that was one of the things that they kind of told me is you don't understand that when you're in a meeting, you feel like you're just ideating or spitballing, but everyone else is receiving it as marching orders. Like we need to go out and we need to launch this area of the business. And it's like, oh, well, I didn't really mean that. It was just like saying maybe we could. Um so yeah, that's that's something that a lot of entrepreneurs need to like kind of catch themselves when they're doing. Not saying never have a new idea, but like, is this idea really the right thing at the right time? And sounds like, you know, for you guys, you thought long and hard about it and found the right idea. We did.
SPEAKER_01We found the original, the the nucleus of it, but man, I've never heard I really appreciate you sharing that. Um, I'd not I've not ever heard that story about Jeff. Uh, but that is that was me. I was that guy, and it was frustrating for for others. It was first off, Steve and I, we never worked in the same office. We never even we started this, we were living in two different towns and we continued that way. I was in Connecticut when we started conceptualizing Gig Salad and Steve had moved to Rhode Island, and that's around 2003. In 2004, I moved from Connecticut to Springfield, and Steve a year later moved from uh Rhode Island to Wilmington, North Carolina. So when we launched, real launch officially launched in 07, um, we established two separate offices and Springfield and we never you got two separate cultures and two separate managers, right? Exactly. Exactly. And and and it was my idea, and I it was really hard for me because the Wilmington office, Steve is the design guy. That's where we hired our first developer and actually gave him some equity. So that's where to that's where our developer developing was happening. And so I'd have ideas that we'd talk about on the phone. I'd be like, okay, and go do this every day. There'd be something. Go we should do this, we should do that. And then they would go and sit shoulder to shoulder on stuff and decide to determine that, yeah, that could be an idea, but it's not necessarily the right idea or the right time, and then come back and be and and oh, it was it was tough. It was very, very hard. And that, but that was the that was me. And it's not you're it's not a good thing, it you know, to have so many ideas and to be throwing them out there, and like you said, not under not uh appreciating the power that you yield and and how that can be miscon misconstrued. Um or you know, um difficult. Difficult it is. As I said, I got I got diagnosed with ADHD, and now it all makes sense, but that's I'm looking back at 57 years at that point and uh sort of piecing it all together, and then going and doing the apology tour with everybody, including my ex-wife and my ex-business partner, and you know, people that I I I thought you know I had done better in trying to keep it together. And I realized, oh, you may not have been that easy to live with all the time, Mark. Um so yeah, that was that was humbling. So thanks for bringing that in, Alex. Yeah, sorry, sorry.
SPEAKER_00Um, well, you kind of backdoored into it, you know. You told me the story after I decided my business. But uh so talk to me about how the business begins scaling. Um, because it's tough to scale a website, right? Like how do people find us? How do we connect people? Because you also have to get the entertainers on there. So not only are you trying to get the clients on, you're trying to get the entertainers on.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it was um we primed the pump initially because as I said, I did have an existing, I had an existing Rolodex of contacts that were in that business. When I when I lived in New York City, when I moved to New York and joined that church back to the church, there was a performing arts ministry within the church. That what I was that's where I was, that's where I lived was there. So I was it was filled with actors and performers and entertainers, Broadway stars and TV stars, and but but all walks uh within that business. And so I knew them. And then my uh Allison, she knew a bunch of local regional musicians, and uh so I was, you know, if that the path of least resistance, who do you know? What do you know? Where do you know, you know, and I just said, hey, I got I got this idea. Would you like to be listed on this website? And and then you just start talking about it. And I'm talking to even my uh, and it and it was never intended to be just a Connecticut thing. It was, you know, I knew people all over the country. So uh, and I was getting contacted by people all over the country. So the so it was just like, what is you know, where are you based? What is it you do? We're gonna start there. And then as event planners start to do the search. And I, you know, we were just it was just dumb luck. Um, we we just happened to get have strong SEO from the very beginning, search engine optimization for those who don't know. So people did searches, and if they put in talent agencies, booking agencies, talent, events, whatever, whatever, Steiner talent showed up, and then that trans that that went into that it happened for gig salad. And then we had the harebrain idea of saying we're gonna offer a lifetime membership to people if they you know for I think it was like $400, $399. Okay, you're on for life.
SPEAKER_00That's the uh entertainer. That's the to the entertainer exactly.
SPEAKER_01Yes, yes, that's um and so we had a number of those people that took us up on it. I it was less than 50, but it it just validated us. People it showed that people not just believed in the concept or the idea, but they believed in me. They were they trusted me, they were willing to give me money on this chance that it was gonna be around even a year later. Nobody knew. Uh, but I have I have I have I the very first guy that the very first person that took us up on it is still a member on the on the website. He's a ventriloquist, you know, in New York City. Uh and so, yeah, and and and from there it just it just started to scale. And immediately the comparisons between us and the other guys, the people that had been around a long time. So that was also a a big catalyst for us to grow our roster because we were able to say to those people who were discovering us, they were the first conversation would be, well, how are you different from them? What are you doing?
SPEAKER_00And you know, became almost a good thing because now you're getting compared one-to-one with like the biggest or the bigger. This is something that actually um Oracle did. Oracle was was not really like nearly as big as Microsoft. Um, but Larry Page like started to create a Larry Page versus Bill Gates kind of storyline. He was like the bad boy, and Bill Gates was like the good guy, and he was like, This is great, because Microsoft was like, I don't know, 20 or 50 times bigger than them. But he's like, now people started talking about us like Microsoft. It's like Oracle versus Microsoft. He's like, that's not the competition, but people were were linking those two things together, and he's like, This is great, we love it. Exactly.
SPEAKER_01We never see that's what we experienced. It would, and we and they were rooting for us because there was a nut there was a this bittersweet relationship with the other that's other company. They because it worked, you know. They started in '97. So they they they they they came up with this business model essentially, and they have been doing it, they were the only game in town, and it was and it worked. So the talent liked getting gigs, but they didn't like every aspect of what how that how that worked. And so we we did the listening tour and said, Well, yeah, we agree with you. It shouldn't be done that way. And and we did it the way we thought it should be done. And not and and and I again, a lot of credit goes to Steve. We made our site was pretty. It was a piece of art, and that was important to both Steve and I. That it was it the aesthetic, it was form and fortune. Uh, you know, form and uh what's uh form and function? Thanks, thank you. Thank you. It's early acts. Uh um so anyway, we I think we we accomplished that. We accomplished it early on.
SPEAKER_00So you're starting to get this network effect. Is it like kind of almost a little bit like trippy or mind-boggling when you're starting to see all these artists pop on and these people pop on? You're like, I don't, this is crazy. I don't know these artists. You know, it's like now bands are signing up that I don't have familiarity with, and people are signing up and they're booking random gigs in Orlando, Florida, and you're like, wow, this is nuts.
SPEAKER_01Yes, yes, yeah, that it it was um it, you know, I was dumb enough, uh ignorant enough to think it's gonna be big. And I thought it's gonna be a million dollars big because that was a big number for me. I, you know, I used to read Fortune magazine and Forbes and all the business magazines um for inspiration, even though I did, I never thought of myself as a businessman. I I mean I was I was an artist first and foremost, uh, and I was in the business. I was a I was a sale, you know, I was an agent. That's that's what I was. Um I knew how to I knew how to schmooze and I knew how to sell talent, but I didn't consider myself a businessman. And it and it, you know, even as I had Steiner talent, now all of a sudden gig sal you know happens and I'm hiring people. And when we officially launch, we buy a building to move out of my home, you know, working out of my house. And it really felt like, oh, yeah, we're gonna need to grow. Uh we're gonna need space to grow. And um now all of a sudden I'm playing that role. And I'm playing it, I'm playing it like an actor. You know, I'm I'm acting like what what is this, what does a business owner look like? How does it are they? I'm masking, you know, I'm I'm doing what I had done my whole life because of the ADHD. But you know, you kind of fake it till you make it, and I and the one thing I knew that I was important to me was the culture of the space without even knowing that term. I just thought, who are you know, who are the people I want to spend time with day in, day out, and started building out that way. Like, what do I want the space to look like? And who do I want to be in that space? And where do I want to have lunch is kind of a new thing that's come to me. Like if for entrepreneurs and people, just as you're thinking about your career, I think the first question you need to ask yourself is where do you want to have lunch? Because where you have lunch is a place where if first off, I hope you envision that you're able to take a break in your day to sit down and have a lunch. Who do you want around the lunch table with you, or do you want to have anybody around the lunch table with you? Do you want to be in your cafeteria? Do you want to be going to a restaurant? Do you want to have that lunch at home with your family? Everything that you build from a business, I think should be built in and around where do you want to have lunch? And uh that's what I did. And the culture is the hallmark of gig salad. Because now I'm in this really wonderful position um of where I have this amazing team that does the heavy lifting and is doing just a really seamless operation. Um, and I have some of the most talented, smartest people in the world that work at Cake Salad. And um I, you know, after 20 years, I'm able to, you know, I'm I'm appreciating that in a different way, but it's all about culture. There's a tremendous amount of loyalty and uh passion about what people do. People feel valued for what they're doing, and we're doing a valuable thing. We're providing a valuable service to people. We give people the opportunity to do what they love, and then we're also a part of people's most fondest memories throughout their life. The the the the the events of people's lives from cradle to grave, we're part of birthdays, anniversaries, weddings, corporate events, you know, all of it. We're we're right there. Funerals, uh, we're we're a part of that. And that's it, you know, it's a it's a special place.
SPEAKER_00How big is the team now at Gig Salad? And what's it like uh managing that team? It's it's 20, right?
SPEAKER_01You know, it's a good size. Right at 20, you know, including the the me and my co uh actually my partner, my partner and I, that that lock, the the first hire. Um, we bought out Steve, my co-founder in 22. Um, yeah, we were as high as 35 at one point. Incredibly, you know, great big inflated, fat marketing team that was all my invention. This is back to that Jeff Bezos sort of thing. It's like I had loud ideas and I wanted to be, I was the wringling brothers and Barnum and Bailey Circus. We were gonna go out there and you know, announce ourselves to the world. And um and through attrition and other ways around 2018, it just started to we started to let people go, or people left, and um it's tough when the team gets that big to like keep the culture together, also.
SPEAKER_00Yes, that's what I've come to find out. Like things this change, I think that I heard it said like 12 or so people is where you can have 12, 14. That's where it can be one team and everybody knows everything. Once you get to like 20, it's like now I gotta kind of break up into two teams, or like 24 or 30. It's like that's two teams, or three teams, even.
SPEAKER_01I like the I like where I'm at because what happened was you know, sure, you know, we discovered that one we we continued to grow. We've always grown. Every every year we've grown, sans COVID year, but we've always grown and we've always been tough.
SPEAKER_00Tough year for the event business.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, you're not kidding. Um, but we survived. Um, we did half the business of 2019, but it was still big business, it was a lot of business. And uh, but but but what we discovered was um we didn't miss a beat. And uh and and I think without even knowing it, the culture got back to being more familiar. And and um and now super tight, super tight. I think I I like it right where we're at. I could see, you know, maybe we get as much as 20 to 20, you know, 24, 25, but we're in a really good spot now. And it's a and and it's also very it's very pleasing to get, you know, you get much more, we're getting much more out of fewer. Yeah, and that's that's really nice. And I think everybody, everybody on the team really likes that too, because you know, I've always promised the team as we grow, you grow. So, you know, you keep doing as much as you are with as few as we are, that just means more for you. Yeah, and better perks and better benefits and better culture.
SPEAKER_00I mean, that's the dream, right? To have that kind of business that's just churning out cash, but you got 10, 15, 20, 30 people, and there's just like so much cash around, everybody can have fun, and we can do fun events and stuff like that. Once it gets bigger and bigger and bigger, it just gets challenging to be like that. And I've heard awesome stories about businesses. It's like we were 30 people and we were absolutely rocking. We're doing 120 million dollars in sales, we're peeling off all this profit, and it was just like a really fun time to be there. Um, but you're you're intelligent uh because you started a business where you don't need any people or inventory, whereas I am dumb and I decided to start a business that exclusively needs people in inventory and real estate. We have a 60,000 square foot warehouse and 50 people and packages everywhere. So uh kudos to you on that. It's probably one of those things where you don't even think about what you're doing and what the long-term effects of that business will be. But then once you get there, you're like, wow, that was that was really fortunate that we did it that way.
SPEAKER_01Yes. Yes. Uh have to yeah, foresight, hindsight, whatever. Um I'm I'm I like ignorance is bliss. You know, and we get to where we get and we we we make uh you know we do it what the best we can.
SPEAKER_00So where do you think the future of uh gig salad is? Because um there's obviously you know other people I'm sure who are looking to take market share from you. Um there's a lot of money going to tech. Um you've got a great business model where you can peel that percentage off of the booking. Um, so how how do you see the future of that business going? And you sound like you also want to act. Like, where's that fall into this thing?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, the business is um so a year ago, about yeah, right about a year ago, um I hired a person full full-time that it was a colleague, friend of mine, worked for another business uh for 12. He had been there 12 years or so, 12, 15 years, uh, a company called Banzoogle, which is a website template platform primarily for bands. And uh we would collaborate and partner with them on certain projects, and um and he left that company in 24, end of 24, and I and he had just accepted a new job. And as we were talking, I was like, hey, if you're ever, and I didn't even know that all all of that was going on, said we should try to work together someday.
SPEAKER_00If you ever that really is your love language, isn't it?
SPEAKER_01It really is my love language.
SPEAKER_00See, I I uh I had that and I learned better of it after trying it and going like, well, that didn't work, and now that relationship's either burnt or awkward.
SPEAKER_01Um yeah, I I yeah, I I definitely uh wisdom uh I'm I'm I I haven't even in in spite of you know it wasn't entirely you know, it wasn't entirely relation relational that what happened. I think just it was a classic that as a founder for Steve as a founder, he got to a place where he was just you know, whether it was burned out, ready for something new, yeah. There was a number of factors. Um it still was a difficult, it was a still a difficult separation. You you know, have been my best friend, he was a co-founder, he was a you know, we brought this thing up together. This was our baby. Um, so yeah, it it definitely is not for the faint of heart to go into business with a friend or family, etc.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I I just uh literally last Friday completed the buyout of my business partner. So I'm the sole owner of our company, but we went dang near 12 years together. So there you go. Yeah, that could be a whole other conversation.
SPEAKER_01It could be, and I those who are listening and don't know this, um there is a man who right there who's um who's going through it. No matter how how it happens, it it can be bittersweet, but dude, uh seriously, that's a that's a thing. Um as far as as far as the gig salad future, it is really bright. Right. Um the moment the first thing that we uh Locke and I did, I said to Locke, we should own our offices again. Like we had we owned, then we sold the building, and then we rented for years. And I thought, let's let's invest in some real estate. And so we bought the existing building in that we were in in Connecticut in Missouri, and then we bought uh a place in Wilmington for that office, and and then and then since then we've invested in two more properties. So we went since yeah, since uh the end of 22 went from owning nothing, just my personal home, to four properties, and I'm working on second home. Yeah, it's it's kind of amazing. Um I became an empty nester in 20, and um a couple things, different things have fed into this. I I also stopped drinking about three years, well, it's three years ago. And I found myself with a lot more time, a lot more energy.
SPEAKER_00That seems like the entertainment business just kind of lends itself to that. Like you gotta go to the event, you gotta be out kind of late. You go, like you said, you gotta schmooze. Like, oh, I gotta go to this. My friend who's the agent, he's like, I gotta go to this showcase and see this artist. And it's like, it's Wednesday, dude. Like, I you know, I don't want to go out. Right. Like, I want to stay home and go to bed, watch a little Netflix and hit the hay, and then wake up tomorrow and I gotta do a five-mile run. Oh, good, you're healthy. Yeah, look at you.
SPEAKER_01Great. Well, that's that that's the stuff I found. That's that's the stuff I found.
SPEAKER_00It's tough to do that when you're like, I have to go out and be like present at this event, and then you're at an event, it's at a bar. Yeah, I'll get a drink or two, you know. And then you music people, one drink turns to three, if it turns to six, and then it turns I'm gonna get to the office tomorrow at 10.
SPEAKER_01Yep, yep. Yeah, that's some some variation of that. It was just uh just a lot of a lot of evolution has happened, and um, as I said, here I am at 60 years old, and I have more uh ambition than I've ever have. I'm doing more things. I have a couple startups I'm working on, including the acting. I started I started a podcast. I that I'm all right. Um I'm we're 24 and you know I think we've recorded 2426, um, or we've posted almost 2426. And so um that's been great. I'm starting my own personal podcast where I'm gonna interview. So, Alex, I'd like to give you the excuse.
SPEAKER_00I'm on, shoot me the email. I got you.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, um, so yeah, uh I'm uh and and by the way, all this is possible because of Gig Salad. Um it it that is the lifeblood of what how I'm able to do as much as I do. And back to where we're at, we're experiencing hockey stick growth. We hired this person, we started doing digital marketing for the first time in our life. Uh we've uh it's always always been organic SEO and word of mouth, and now we're doing some digital marketing, and it's it's nearly hockey stick growth all of a sudden. And to be uh almost 20 years in doing, well, we're 20 years in doing this, um to be experiencing that is pretty amazing. And we're of course trying to navigate AI and how does that apply, and how can we use that to help run the business, and how can we help use that to the end user, et cetera? Um you know, there's nothing but opportunity, uh, there's nothing but excitement. It's kind of the wild west again, you know, even though we've been doing it a long time. When we let's put it this way, when we launched, there wasn't Airbnb, there wasn't Uber. That's crazy. You know, this idea of an event marketplace wasn't as commonly known as it is uh, you know, as it is now. And so we're you know, we've learned a lot from from startups uh that are in different different spaces, but still all the same. You know, what what can we what can we do differently? What can we do better? We're always asking ourselves that.
SPEAKER_00So what you're saying is Airbnb and Uber took your idea. Pretty much. Yeah, yeah. You should shoot him an email, see if they'll give you a couple percentage points. Um, so could you foresee yourself selling Gig Salad? Or do you think this is like something that I'll have the rest of my life? I know you I think you said you have a son, I'm not sure about other family. Do you think they would ever be interested in taking the business over? Or do you think it's something it sounds like you've put someone in place who can manage the business and you can focus on these other things?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I think it's gonna be a legacy sort of thing. Uh, whether it goes to the employees, whether it goes to um, I don't know. I don't I don't think I want to, I don't think I want to sell. We that that was sort of the catalyst that got us to buying Steve Owl. You know, at different times from about 2015 for five years. Uh, I was going through my I the beginning stages of my divorce. Um Steve, it was similar. So we were both we we had where we were going through these personal challenges. We were uh the at Gig Salad, the business itself was doing great, but our specific usefulness we weren't necessarily feeling. We had it sort of had outgrown us. We I you know neither one of us had a tech background. Um, and it really we became a tech company as opposed to a talent bookings place, which is what I was familiar with. Even Steve, as the designer, you know, it was like we felt like we were getting a little too much tunnel vision because we did everything in-house for so long. And I think just more and more as the company grew and as we relied on the team more um and delegated better, and et cetera, it was like, hey, when we would step away and all of a sudden realize not only did things not fall apart, but they were thriving. Yeah. It's like, oh, okay, maybe we're in that unique position now of um that teenage years of being a founder, and maybe we can step back a little bit and uh reap some of the reward of all the hard work that we had done. And it's continued to be that way. So once once we were able to buy out Steve and satisfy him, and I I didn't have a need to sell anymore. You know, it it provides for me a very comfortable lifestyle. Um I'm not I'm not rich, but I have a great life. It's a very simple life, and it's a life I enjoy a great deal. I get to travel, I get to do these, this. I'm a content creator now. That's the my main focus, is I'm really leaned in this past year to doing content both for Gig Salad and for my own personal brand for what it's worth. I launched my own personal website. So I'm blogging and I'm telling my story uh that I didn't think even had much value before. But now I'm I'm realizing, you know, there's some unique aspects of my journey that I think could resonate with others. And if if I can, uh I'm gonna at least put it out there. And if I get some likes or some follows or some whatever, then great. If not, it it definitely serves me uh for my own artistic expression and just again, uh the way I process for my for with my condition, it it uh I talk to think. And so I'm I'm out there just rapping and riffing and and doing videos and doing and and and sort of preparing myself for the acting roles. You know, I'm on camera, I'm I'm doing doing bits, I'm doing my shtick, and we'll see what happens.
SPEAKER_00Well, my only piece of advice when it comes to content or specifically the podcast is just keep at it. I mean, you you gotta you gotta make sure that you keep at it. I my friend started a podcast here in town, and he was getting like some great Columbus local, like, I don't know, you don't call them celebrities, right? We don't have that many celebrities, but like local celebrities. Like he got um some really you know famous newscasters from Columbus who've been doing it a really long time and some kind of well-known people. And I think he just was like, dang, this is a lot of work, kind of got sidetracked and hasn't put out an episode in I don't know, eight to nine months. So it's it's tough to stop. It's kind of like working out. Once you stop, it's like ooh, the body starts to slow down and catch up. So I'd say just keep at it. That's my only piece of advice when it comes to the podcast, whether it be yours or the one you're doing with the group.
SPEAKER_01Thank you. Thank you, Axe. I appreciate that. How many, how, how many episodes have you recorded yet?
SPEAKER_00Let's find out 130, 140, something like that.
SPEAKER_01Oh wow. Well, kudos to you because we we chose me and my two co-hosts chose we don't we don't interview people, we just rap. And we decided um right early on that we were gonna um work with a podcast coach. And uh it's been very helpful. And but he talked about the various milestones of getting to the first, you know, your first 20. And that shows the algorithm, that shows Spotify and Apple and these places um that you're you're serious, that you're at it. And then the next one is at you know, 50. And and by the time if you've gotten to 100 and beyond, then you're you're clearly a success. I mean, if you're still doing it, and because it's not easy. No, it's work to do a bunch of it's work.
SPEAKER_00People think, oh, it's just talking. Oh well, that's the easy part. All the other stuff is is work. 143. I just looked it up. So you might be 144 or five. Producing, promoting, having guests, clipping, booking the guests, finding the guests, you know, all that stuff.
SPEAKER_01All of it, all of it. Yeah, um, I applaud you, especially again. This is uh I'm not to be blowing smoke here. Um and I I I I don't know exactly who your audience is, but if they are entrepreneurs, business owners, to own one business is is one thing, and it's in and of itself, it's not easy. To have a team of 50, to all all that you've talked about for you, to have this side hustle, which it for some is the full-time job, you know, to be a podcast is a it could be a full-time job, and you uh and you have a family, and you know, who else knows whatever other endeavors you have going on? Um it's it's it's a lot, and if and it sounds like you're doing it with some finesse and some class. So that's that's great. I really I applaud you. I I'm this is the other stuff I'd love to talk about is the idea of being an entrepreneur. It's it's you know, being that risk tolerant and having an idea and going for it and building and growing something. Yeah, man.
SPEAKER_00It's tough for you. Tough business. Appreciate that. All right, Mark, last question. Where we where where and when are we gonna see you on the big screen, man? You're getting back into the acting world. Is it gonna be Godfather Four? Is that where we're gonna see in the leading man role?
SPEAKER_01I um I don't even know if I want to be a leading man anymore. No, I'm a character. I'm a I'm very much a character actor, and um, it's gonna be sooner than later. If I have it my way. I plan on living to be at least a hundred. Good, good. It's actually, and and so I'm I'm I would be perfectly happy bopping around, getting a line here, a line there, and doing independent films. Um, but I I am, I I I wouldn't, I couldn't do it any other way. So it is a goal to get an Oscar. All right.
SPEAKER_00So well, hey, why why why do it if you're not gonna shoot for the top, baby? Precisely. So awesome. Well, we're here for you, man. We're gonna be watching. Um, where can everybody find you? Check out all the stuff that you're doing. Obviously, gig salad, gigsalad.com. Um gigsalad.com.
SPEAKER_01The real the where I would really love to direct people outside of gigsalad.com, in addition to gigsalad.com, is thinkapon.com. Thinkapon. Thinkapon.com is my uh my website I launched on my 60th birthday on March 10th, and it's all things mark Steiner. When this finally comes, when whenever you post this, there'll be a link there that we'll we'll have.
SPEAKER_00And this is a nice website, thethinkapon.com. You didn't this is not a little WordPress you threw together in three minutes, man. This is a nice site.
SPEAKER_01Wow, Alex, I so appreciate that. Um, that is a response that everybody gives, and I have to give Revel, Revel uh in in Springfield, Missouri, uh credit for it because we collaborated on that. They heard me, they saw me, and they captured um, they captured me. So thank you. That that's in that I believed you, and that sincere reply is what I get every time, and it thrills me. It really does. So thank you.
SPEAKER_00Well, thank you so much, Mark. I know you got some fun stuff to go out and do. You got bike rides, you got uh sights to see in the city. Um so we'll let you loose, man. But thank you so much for spending your Sunday morning with me. Thank you very much. Appreciate it, man.
